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06/29/04 10:44 PM
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#93
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AMVU Freshman ![]() Gender:
Group: Registered Users Posts: 45 Joined: 11/13/03 From: Calif Relationship Status: Single and Looking |
Dear Michael,
Thank you for the kind words. Yes I know you have been trying to help, and have been nothing but honest with me. Alas when our hearts are already wounded, a word taken ever so wrong makes it bleed all the faster. You were not trying to inflict pain on me and I know that Micheal. I was being overly sensitive most likely. I appreciate your prayers in this very difficult time for his widow and all of his friends. He was a well respected musician in this town and one of the best pickers that ever held a Gibson. We all miss him terribly. As always, it is a fresh reminder of the fragility of life. You are absolutely right about how things come across in written form as opposed to being face to face with someone. That is one reason I made it an absolute to never discuss things online with D or anyone. Emotional issues all need to be addressed in person, or the very least, on the phone. Voice inflection is one thing, but body language and the nuances of facial expressions say so much more. D is a master at hiding his feelings from anyone, in his own words. However, I have learned after 4 years that he cannot hide how he feels deep inside compeletely as his face and his eyes give him away. The power to forgive is something I think we can all learn and you are right, it should be a prerequiste to being a human. Being, human, human being. So many people get caught up in 'doing' that they are never just 'being'.. and being is what leads us to the path of who we are. While I was crying last Sat night with a fellow friend and former band mate of Ken's, (the friend who was killed) he told me that he is so confused about life right now, (bad marriage, lost his business and Ken was his best friend) that he said he got down to the very core of the question, and instead of asking why this was or that was, he asked "who am I ?" I had to think about that one and started asking the same question. Why was I put here? what am I here to contribute? It made me think about how little my problems are in the face of the grand scheme of things. That doesn't help all the time with the pain, but I am feeling more centered about what I need to ask for myself. It is difficult at best Micheal, to forgive an unresponsive and exculpable person. That is when we learn (hopefully) the power of forgiveness "just because". It is very freeing and very powerful. It goes into deeper levels I have learned. I had forgiven my ex "just because" but found myself being annoyed at him and other feelings of hatred coming up when we had to discuss our daughter. So I knew that at some deeper level, I still didn't truly forgive him. Eventually I was able to let that go too, and now find myself happy for him that he is finding a new life far away. I still feel sad for my daughter, because her dad is out of physical reach, but she had him far longer than I ever had my father. She is strong and will be fine. I hope that someday she will forgive me for kicking him out of our house.She understands why, but understanding and forgiveness are two different things. I have experienced some anger toward D. I think I am suppressing it somehow. I think I should be more angry at him, but because he has so many emotional issues, and he never hurt me with malice, I have a hard time being angry at him per se. I was angry at the situation on Sat, and cried on my way home after seeing him at a small tribute to Ken. I was so surprised he came. He got bored qiuickly with the music and left. I thought he was leaving because of me being there, but then I thought about it and realized I was over analyzing things again and stopped myself. He would not have even come if he didnt want to be in the same room with me, as he knew I was there. I think he is experiencing alot of guilt when he sees me. He is acting like he did in 2001 when we split up then. But this time I found myself thinking "good". Well, I need to work on that, but I still am not mad at him for some reason. I am going to address this issue in counciling. I know what you mean about the dichotomy of the healing emotions. I think forgiveness comes sometimes not until all the other ones have been spent; almost a surrender to the inevitable. You cannot move any farther until you forgive once that wall has been faced. The wall being all the pain, anger, denial, and fear we feel. If we scale it and make it to the top, forgiveness is the free-fall we have as we float to the bottom... I have re-read your other post Michael and I agree that letting go of hope and realizing that even if we do acknowledge this person wasn't the one for us, we will still be hurt and feel sad even if we let go completely to hope. Maybe we need to feel this, just ride the waves of anger and then forgiveness and back to fear, etc BEFORE we can let go of anything!! I don't know Michael. I have these really warm feelings of being very benevolent and forgiving of D then hours later when I go to bed I miss him and start sobbing and wonder why, why?? My councilor says it's all a process, and I know I am still fresh into it. I think we need to all give ourselves more time and be more loving to ourselves. I don't think we can push it any faster for ourselves, although we sure would like to. I think the amount of time and pain is not related to the extent of the relationship as attested to by the many posts in here of 6 and 8 month relationships ending with just as much pain. I am not sure this acknowledgment (of them not being right for us) helps speed it along or not.I guess time will tell. I can tell you this one thing however.. it seems to me, from my past experience, that anger, of all the emotions, seems to speed our healing up the fastest. I have tried to figure this out, but I think it's because we let go easier to something that angers us. Tell me what you think? I think it is one reason I am having such a hard time with letting go of D. My brain tells me it's over, but I still feel that love and still wonder about the future....anyway, hugssss to you M, Jana -------------------- ~~~GO RED WINGS!!~~~
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07/02/04 02:14 PM
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#94
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AMVU Freshman ![]() Gender:
Group: Registered Users Posts: 29 Joined: 03/20/04 |
Dear Michael,
I'm doing well, just busy at work but I do read all the posts on this M&V site everyday. Those pages I suggested in M&V on date is in the paperback. I don't know the exact pages in the hardcover... I don't mean to keep repeating the same feeling over and over again, but the more time that I've been completely resolved from my past... I'm able to discern why my ex was not the right person for me, why it was hard letting go. For me, it was a blow to my ego that I got dumped. The feeling of being rejected was so painful that I kept hanging on to him, to our failing relationship...I knew there were problems but at the time when my self-esteem was crushed, I didn't want to let go of what I'm already comfortable with. I can see more clearly now that if we had stayed together, both of us would be miserable...there would be the endless fights, arguments, resentments, and can lead to hate (I don't like that word). Even to come back and try to resolve, that would be hard because the past will resurface whether we want to or not. Like I mentioned before, I'm getting mentally and emotionally stronger everyday...just from letting go. I know it's a hard thing to do, but I find that there is no other way. I feel that if we accept the situation-- the other person doesn't feel the same way for us as we feel for them (yes it is a rejection)-- the faster the healing. I believe our ex(es) still love for us but not IN LOVE with us --to want a relationship with us... does that make sense? Most importantly, I have learned not to be so hard on myself, learned to love and embrace who I am with faults and all, in order to detach completely. If we hang on, we're depending too much on others to be loved...we won't be happy when things don't turn out the way we want. If you don't see my post on this site anymore, it's because this is all I know from only one relationship that I had...I don't think I have enough experience to advise, but I'm always reading and feeling the pain that everyone has shared here. Hope your situation gets better soon!! I'll be praying for you. |
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07/04/04 01:33 AM
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#95
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AMVU Freshman ![]() Gender:
Group: Registered Users Posts: 85 Joined: 02/09/04 |
Dear Jana,
I really appreciated your reply. I would like to comment first about your earlier discussion about anger, because your post really helped me with something, and perhaps I can help you, too. There are certain times that I feel particularly down about the relationship ending, missing my ex, etc. After reading your post and re-reading a few sections of 'Starting Over', it hit me that I am stuck in feeling some combination of sadness, fear, and sorrow - I think heavily weighted in the sadness and sorrow group. Gray talks that usually these are more typical in women, but often there are gender reversals in feelings. In re-reading the chapter on Getting Unstuck, it really hit me that I am not feeling any anger. I'm too quick to not allow myself to feel much, if any, anger. I keep struggling with forgiveness, but at the same time not allowing myself to feeling angry (sounds like an iterative loop, huh?). You had mentioned that it seems that anger allows us to speed the healing process. According to Gray, uncovering the buried feelings speeds the process. So perhaps it's not anger that speeds the process generally speaking, but if you (and I) are not allowing yourself (and myself) to feel the anger, then eventually feeling anger and releasing it will speed the process. Oddly, I know my ex was exactly the opposite (looking back now) - she could easily get angry about something, and I think she did repress her other feelings quite well. It did 'seem' that she would be over certain things, but in hindsight I can see that she was not healed of these things - issues with her Mother, certain family relationships, and her ex-husband (much resentment and buried feeling). So it points to me that feeling anger is no better of a short circuit to the healing process than any other emotion - the real solution is probably just as Gray says: feeling all 4 healing emotions / levels. This is something I'm going to try. One problem that I have is that feeling anger seems to lead me to blame and that doesn't feel good. I guess that I have to feel the anger - really feel that anger - then release it in forgiveness. Regarding your last paragraph, I have very similar feelings/experiences. I get to a point where I gain some better perspective on the relationship and rather than being sad, I have an understanding of why things happened; and instead of being afraid, I am trusting in myself and the future; and rather than pining away for her and what could have been, I'm grateful for the lessons learned and the good times we had; and rather than being angry, I forgive her for her mistakes and her unaccountable blaming, etc. Then a new day comes or something happens, and I'll get sad again (like this weekend) or be afraid that I'll never find someone as special for me, or I'll wish that she'd just call, etc. It's absolutely amazing that both sets of these feelings can occur within days (or even a day?) of each other! Those are the signs that I'm really not ready to be in a new relationship yet. If you think it'd help, please take a re-read of that chapter on Getting Unstuck and let me know your thoughts. Have you found that re-reading this book and having these discussions in the various stages of healing are really helpful by finding or hearing something in a new way upon a re-read? I have found that quite often. I hope this helps. Michael |
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07/11/04 02:02 PM
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#96
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AMVU Freshman ![]() Gender:
Group: Registered Users Posts: 45 Joined: 11/13/03 From: Calif Relationship Status: Single and Looking |
Dear Michael,
Sorry about the delay in posting, but I have been thinking about what you said and reading the book also. I agree with your assement about any of the emotions being the one we supress, hence another one comes out. I think I mentioned anger because I am not feeling any. Mostly sadness, sorrow, fear and a lot of pain. My councilor told me yesterday that I seem to be a better spot than I was 4 weeks ago, and that I would feel more anger if D hooked up with another women. On this account I am sure he is right, since I know I still love him. I read the chapter again about getting unstuck, and I know that you have to let the pain wash over you at times and feel it, really feel it, along with everything else, to let it go. Letting go- for me- is the hardest part, because it is so final. But if I get into a space of clarity in my mind, I can go back into my experiences and realize that it means letting go of the present condition, and remembering that the future isn't written yet. With this in mind,I have let go a lot more of the hope, the dreams, I had about D. I am feeling calmer, and even though I am not making any effort to see him, when I do, I am feeling okay with it. He showed up at a jazz concert I was attending and he sat with me, and told me his plans for his vacation to Michigan.(his family is there). Then he asked if I might be able to take him to the airport on the 30th. After he left, I felt sad for just a few minutes, but I didn't fall apart as I had been doing previously. This reinforced that my self-induced exhile from him has helped alot. I am seeing him in a more objective way, as a friend only, and that is my goal. I am not there yet, and still avoiding most contact with him. He doesn't seem any more inclined to see me, which tells me he really wanted and needed to be alone again. I have discussed my takes on D's whole behavioral pattern with my councilor in an effort to understand the why, and he told me I hit it right on the head. He said D exibits 'attachement disorder'.. geesh another label... My goal,l I told my councilor, is to heal me, and to that end I have started to meditate, which I haven't in over 28 years. The first time I did, I focused on the feeling of contentment and love I had in D's arms, and was thrilled to feel the same feeling come over me. I realized then that the feeling I had when I was with him did indeed come from me, not from him. That gave me a sense of empowerment that I needed. My councilor told me that this process is a long one, (duh) but I will get there and he is dedicated to getting me there. I am not sure how much help I need, but I do need someone to talk to and bounce things off of.We wimmens need to be heard! Anyway, I certainly hear you about the getting stuck part Michael. I have never thought about feeling your emotions being gender-based, but I do understand what Gray means about the roles in society playing into it. As far as supressing things, like you mentioned about your ex- I too saw D suppress his love and thus feel only his anger and resentment for his ex. Gray says if you don't say goodbye with an open heart you will not be able to find the love you deserve or will find love but not see it for what it is, which is certainly the case with me and D. I bought Gray's book, "What you feel, you can heal" for him a long time ago and he read it until it got too painful. The book talks about the supression of feelings and how when in a relationship the feelings we supress are then brought up more sharply in our partners. If your think about this,it is really true. I supressed my anger at a lot of the things D did, and he was even more moody. He supressed all his love, and I was even more loving and affectionate.. odd paradox but it seems valid. let me know what your thoughts are on that. You seemed to have expressed it already some. Re-reading the chapters and the whole book now has been extremely insightful for me Michael, as has discussing this with you. Thanks for that.. hugss Jana -------------------- ~~~GO RED WINGS!!~~~
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06/29/04 10:44 PM



